GW: Your lyrics contain some provocative gay references, in particular the line "Everybody is gay" from All Apologies." Is that a reflection of that time?

Cobain: I wouldn't say it was a reflection of that time. I'm just carrying on with my beliefs now. I guess it is [provocative] in a commercial sense, because of how many albums we've sold.

GW: It's very unusual to find bands talking about those kinds of things, particularly in the format that you're using which is male rock.

Cobain:yeah, but I think it's getting better. though, now that "alternative music" is finally getting accepted, althouugh that's a pretty sad term, as far as I'm concerned. But at least the consciousness is there, and that's really healthy for the younger generation.

GW: Have you had any problems from the industry or fans because of your gay references?

Cobain: Never. Pansy Division covered "Teen Spirit" and reworked the words to "Smells Like Queer Spirit," and thanked us in the liner notes. I think it said, "Thank you to Nirvana for taking the most pro-gay stance of any commercially successful rock band." That was a real flattering thing. it's just that it's nothing new to any of my friends, because of the music we've been listening to for the last 15 years now.

I suppose things are different now. If you watch Mtv, they have these "Free Your Mind" segments in the news hour, where they report on gay issues and stuff like that. Pretty much in subtle ways they remind everyone how sexist the wave of heavy metal was throughout the entire eighties, because all that stuff is almost completely dead. It's dying fast. I find it really funny to see a lot of those groups like Poison-not evenPoison, but Warrant and Skid Row, bands like that-desperately clinging to their old identities, but now trying to have an alternative angle in their music. It gives me a small thrill to know that I've helped in a small way to get rid of these people-or maybe at least to make them think about what they've done in the past 10 years. Nothing has changed, really, except for bands like Soul Asylum who've been around for like 12 years, have been struggling in bars forever, and now have their pretty faces on Mtv. Still they have a better attitude than the metal people. I think it's healthier. I'd much rather have that than old stuff.

GW: The track that first got me into Nirvana was "On A Plain." But whats it about?

Cobain: Classic alienation, I guess. Every time I go through those songs I have to change my story, because I'm as lost as anyone else. For the most part, I write songs from pieces of poetry thrown together. When I write poetry its not thematical at all. I have plenty of notebooks, and when it comes to write lyrics, I just steal from my poems.

GW: Is that hhow the songs on In Utero were written?

Cobain: A little less so. There are more songs on this album that are thematic, that are actually about something rather than just pieces of poetry. Like, "Scentless Apprentice" is baout the book, Perfume, by Patrick Süskind. I don't think that I've ever written a song based on a book before.

GW: Did you read much when you were a kid?

Cobain: I was probably about 14. Junior high. I never took it very seriously. I've never kept personal journals, either. I've never kept a diary, and I've tried to write stories in poetry; it's always been abstract.

The plan for my life, ever since I can remember, was to be a commercial artist. My mother gave me a lot of support in being artistic-she really complimentedmy drawings and paintings. So I was always building up to that. By the time I was in ninth grade I was taking three commercial art classes and planning to go to art school. My art teacher would enter my patintings and stuff in contests. But ultimately, I wasn't interested in that at all, really; it wasn't what I wanted to do. I knew my limitations. However, I really enjoyed art and still like to paint.

I've always felt the same about writing, as well. I know I'm not educated enough to really write something that I would enjoy on the level that I would like to read.

GW: When did you first visit England?

Cobain: '89.

GW: Did you enjoy it?

Cobain: Yeah. Especially the first time. We also wnet through the rest of Europe, but by the seventh week I was ready to die. We were touring with Tad. It was 11 people in a really small Volvo van, with all our equipment.

GW: You mean12, with Tad . . .

Cobain: Fifteen! Depending on whether his stomach was empty or not. He vomited a lot on that tour.

GW: When did you first realize that things were starting to break for the band?

Cobain: Probably while we were on tour in Europe in '91. We'd finish the "Teen Spirit" video and they started to play it while we were on tour. I got reports every once in a while from friends of mine, telling me that I was famous. So it didn't affect me until probably three months after we'd been famous in Americs.

GW: Was there one moment when you walked into it and you suddenly realized ?

Cobain: Yeah. When I got home. A friend of mine made a complication of all the news stories about our band that appeared on Mtv and local news programs and stuff. It was frightening. It scared me.

GW: How long did it scare you?

Cobain: For about a year and a half-up until the last eight months or so. Until my child was born, I would say. That's when I finally decided to crawl out of my shell and accept it. there were times when I wanted to break up the band because the pressure was so intense, but, because I like this band, I felt like I had a responsibility not to.

GW: Was that around the time of your summer 1992 European tour?

Cobain: Yes. That was when the band started to really fail me emotionally. A lot of it to do with the fact that we were playing these outdoor festivals in the daytime. There's nothing more boring than doing that. The audiences are amssive and none of them care what band is on the stage. I was just getting over my drug addiction, or trying to battle that, and it was just too much. For the resy of the year I kept going back and forth between wanting to quit and wanting to change our name. But because I still really enjoy playing with Chris and Dave, I couldn't see us splitting up because of the pressures os success. It's just pathetic, you know? To have to d osomething like that.

It's weird. I don't know if, when we play live, there is much of a consciousconnectionbetween Chris and Dave and I. I don't usually even notice them; I'm in my own world. On the other hand, I'm not saying it doesn't matter whether they are there or not, that I could hire studio musicians or something.

GW: I know it wouldn't be the same. For me, the original band is you and Chris and Dave.

Cobain: I consider that the original band too, because it was the first time we had a competent drummer. And for some reason, I've needed a good, solid drummer. There are loads of bands I love that have terrible drummers, but a terrible drummer wasn't right for this music. At least, it isn't right for the music that we've written so far.

GW: You haven't really been on the road for a year, not since the Nevermind tour.

Cobain: I've been recuperating.

GW: Why did drugs happen? Were they just around?

Cobain: I had done heroin for about a year, off and on, I've had this stomach condition for like five years. There were times, especially during touring, when I just felt like a drug addict-even though I wasn't-because I was starving [an outgrowth of his condition-GW Ed.] and couldn't find out what was wrong with me. I tried everything I could think of. Change od diet, pills, everything. . . exercise, stopped drinking, stopped smoking and nothing worked. I just decided that if I'm going to feel like a junkie every fucking morning and be vomiting every day then I may as well take a substance that kills the pain. I can't say that's the main reason why I did it, but it has a lot to d owith it. It has a lot more to do with it than most people think.

GW: Did you find out what the stomach thing was?

Cobain: No.

GW: Do you still get it?

Cobain: Every once in a while. But for some reason it's just gone away. I think it's a psychosomatic thing. My mom had it for a few years when she was in her early twenties, and eventually it went away. She was in the hospital all the time because of it.

GW: Are you feeling a bit better now?

Cobain: Yeah. Especially in the last year, since I've been married and had a child, my mental and physical states have improved almost 100 percent. I'm really excited about touring again. I haven'tfelt this optomistic since right before my parents divorce.

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